Nanny Knows Best

Nanny Knows Best
Dedicated to exposing, and resisting, the all pervasive nanny state that is corroding the way of life and the freedom of the people of Britain.

Tuesday, July 13, 2010

Nanny Bans Swimming - In Case of Water Ingestion II

I have just received this response from Stoke On Trent, re an email I only sent them an hour ago about their "swimming ban".

The speed of their response indicates they are running scared.

I suggest that the rest of you give them a push.

I also note that even if this is "only" guidance, it still fans the flames of division. They have not answered my question either.

"Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Your Question of 13/07/2010: "Have you lost your minds re banning swimming lessons during Ramadan? "The council, by this ill informed and odious document, have done more to damage inter faith/ethnic relations in this country than any number of marches by the BNP or extreme Muslim groups. How the hell do they think this helps Muslims integrate into society by singling them out for special treatment in this way?""

Thank you for your enquiry. The answer to your question is as follows:

Thank you for your mail. The report you refer to is for guidance only to schools which has been put together with the help of the Muslim council of Great Britain. It was discussed at a recent meeting of the city councils Standing Advisory Council on Religious Education and is aimed at making teachers aware of a range of issues which could affect children during Ramadan. With thanks

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  1. Ken,

    I suspect the reply was quick because it was a standard reply, I suspect that, if we all sent an email to Stoke Council, we would all recieve the same reply.
    I suspect they knew they would get some flac for their decision and so prepared the reply you recieved.

    Btw, I am saddened to see that the internet legend that is Gary Elsby, is nolonger on the council;-)

  2. Winston O' Churchill1:10 PM

    Take it that swimming lessons will be banned during Lent as well then? No, thought not.
    Why the left and it always the left bow and scrape to these people is beyond me.

  3. Lord of Atlantis1:44 PM

    In council speak, Ken, 'guidance' or 'advice' usually means 'do it, or else!' in other words, dictat, unless they get more bad publicity than they anticipated, when they backtrack. Would I be cynical to suggest that is what happened in this case?

  4. Although Stoke-on-trent council appear to have taken this upon themselves, I don't hear any Muslim groups speaking out and saying this is bollocks.

    Or maybe the media can't be bothered to repeat their views on the subject?

  5. Copy of unanswered email sent to Stoke Council:-

    Regarding your ill-informed guidance to teachers about swimming classes during the month of Ramadan, I wonder what advice you would like to offer the organizers of the 2012 Olympics.

    Many Muslim competitors will be taking part in the event which overlaps with their holy month. These athletes (including swimmers) will decide for themselves what and when to eat and drink. Will they be going against your guide lines? Will they be setting a poor example to the Muslim children in Stoke?

    Why can’t you allow the Muslim children in your dubious care (and their parents) to make decisions based on their own beliefs?

    I cannot believe that the guidance that you have offered has been backed by any Muslim group because I very much doubt that they (unlike you) would want to stop non-Muslim children swimming and enjoying themselves.

    Who instigated the meeting between your Council and the Muslim Council of Great Britain?

    Why does your Council allow an unelected body to dictate guidance to non-Muslims?

    Why was the Muslim Council so concerned about swimming and seemingly not bothered about Muslim children feeling ‘left out’ when the non-Muslim kids eat their lunches or sweets?

    Why did the Muslim Council single out Stoke for their attentions? If they represent the Muslims of Great Britain, then why did they not approach all Councils?

    Why was the Muslim Council only concerned with schools where a significant proportion of kids are Muslim? Do they not care if small minorities are ‘left out’?

    If the Muslim Council is worried about Muslim teenagers having sexual thoughts during Ramadan, then why have they not insisted that the ‘top shelf’ magazines be removed from all Muslim owned newsagents?

    The laws of Islam are ancient and not subject to change. The Muslim Council of Great Britain has been in existence for many years, so why are they only now taking a different approach towards swimming and sex education lessons, and why only in Stoke?

    I suggest that it was your Council alone that came out with this ill-informed garbage. If Muslim kids feel left out from certain activities during Ramadan, then so be it. A good lesson for them to learn is tolerance towards others that do not share their faith.

  6. Correction: the Muslim Council of Britain have now said something along the lines of "the council have taken something we said out of context, don't blame us..."


  7. Anonymous7:29 PM

    There is NO restriction for Muslims drinking during daylight hours in Ramadan. Children are exempt from the fasting rules anyway so it appears to be a case of some PC busybody with too much time on their hands and too little thinking.
    Presumably the more devout Christians would have to lose a bit of faith or walk about on top of the water...
    I'll get me coat...
    TTFN :)

  8. IUncle John3:41 AM

    I don't understand why schools (and other public bodies)still allow any of the children in their care to use swimming pools, when it is widely known that the dangerous chemical "Di Hydrogen Mon Oxide" is almost always to be found in them.

    For full details - see

  9. Uncle John3:56 AM

    BTW - this news story was 'picked up' last night by listeners to ClassicFM radio.

    Apparently water ingestion in pools can be a problem - if swimmers swallow too much, the water level may drop too far for H&S - and topping up is wasteful of valuable resources.

    A listener claimed that one council had ordered men wearing 'baggy shorts' while swimming to change into smaller, tighter garments such as 'Speedos' to avoid removing up to 2 litres of the pool contents every time they get out.

  10. Lord of Atlantis11:27 AM

    Copy of email I am sending to Stoke City Council on this matter. If I receive a reply I shall advise accordingly.
    "I understand that the council have taken the decision to ban swimming lessons during Ramadan, because Muslims are meant to fast from dawn to dusk during this time, including no liquids, because swimming lessons pose the risk of children ingesting water and thus breaking this fast. This is all very well, but what happens if a Muslim falls into a body of water and begins drowning during Ramadan? Should they continue to drown, or do their best to save themselves even if it means swallowing some water?. I would actually take this question a stage further: if a devout Muslim came across someone drowning during this time, would it be the right thing to let them drown rather than attempt to save them, because of the possibility of ingesting water? Surely, even the strictest follower of Islamic law can differentiate between deliberately breaking one's fast for pleasure, and doing so accidentally? Now at this point I would conjecture that were a Muslim family so concerned about their child swallowing water during Ramadan, then they would simply write a "please excuse" note during this period, and the school would use e commonsense and say "OK". However, I believe children are exempt from the requirement to fast anyway?

    We should be integrating ethnic minorities into British society, but this kind of policy will not only have the opposite effect, but may well cause resentment by others at perceived preferential treatment for minority groups. Much of the friction between the majority of people and such groups is caused by public bodies being only too keen to be offended on their behalf: this type of action fuels the flames of division as extreme groups can look at the apparent special treatment a group is getting and therefore conclude they are seen to be more important than the rest of society.

    I await your reply with interest."